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Rules question
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Orkdung



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 3678
Location: Fidwog

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That said, I can't think of any reason why a Partisan Rhyfler with a looted bogen would have a profile that's any different from a Crusader with a bogen. Likewise for a Partisan armed with a looted Ryshi, Harlech/Angrodd, Cryfen, etc. If you wanted to sprinkle some looted weaponry in among your bolt action rifles, why not just lift the profiles from the other factions? As always, it's the spirit of the game that counts and I think looted weapons makes perfect sense for a band of Partisans.



I'll come up with these stats this week.
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to which Edgyr replied "It's over for you anyway"
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DrinkDuffLight



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, i got to play around with the flying lead point system and wow that makes the game make ALOT more sens. (maybe it should be stated somewhere to use that so you can make your armys Razz ) i feel like it really completes the army section.

I also went ahead and picked up a crusader starter pack and a LMG so i can start my brigands i jsut have to figure out a color scheme and how im going to convert these heads to make them a little less uniform Smile GO GREEN stuff.
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maccioniath



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 2375
Location: the swamps of jersey

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green stuff works well, but you can also ask Josh nicely via PM and he will sell you individual bits. Heads, guns, etc., to break up the uniformity of the Crusaders.
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DrinkDuffLight



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im going to GS it and use random plastic bitz, as i have for many armies.
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DrinkDuffLight



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, i have gotten to play about 3 games now and I am enjoying it thus far. We have had some little questions here and there but have managed to work through it well enough but i figured it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and ask.

Weapon crew questions.
1) can weapon crew fire there own weapons. Or can they only be used to set up breakdown a weapon, or be used to stop a jam/out of ammo.

It just says you roll the team all at once and there actions form a pool for the unit, but you have to pick one model to the gunner. This leads me to think that even though you pool up there results you still have to us individual actions for each model outside of setting up/taking down the gun. (moving, firing, etc) So if you want to take an aimed shot you would need to roll at least two successes? And if you wanted to move each model once in that same turn you would need a total of 3.
IE you cant use 3 troops (1 gunner and 2 crew) roll one success and make an aimed shot with the action pool.

2) If a model dies is it assumed that one of your other crew members picks up the LMG, HMG, or HSG?

Targeting

1) If there are multiple squads can you pick what squad to shoot at and hit the closest member of that squad, or is it closest model period.

Squads

1) Can your troops pick up better weapons off the dead. Ie if you drop that nice Ryshi, can a fellow squad mate pick it up and use it?

Shooting

1) Can you shoot at a model that you do not have line of site to with any troops. (using speculative fire) or is that only if you know that model is there. Meaning the model firing might not have line of sight but another model in your army does. Or perhaps he just shot out of a window then faded back into the building using his last action???

And last for the night, group orders. Veterans have different abilities that can be used when given a group order.

pg 106 "Veteran abilities are exclusive to the most experienced rhyflers of each faction. When a veteran leader gives Veteran rhyflers within double his command range a group order they gain the benefits of their factions veteran ability."

So a few things.

1) The command range for Vet leaders is double to other vets???
2) You can only use the Vet abilities as part of a group order?
3) a Vet must get orders from a VET LEADER to be able to use the abilities.
4) Do the Regroup and Concentrated fire orders count as group orders for the purpose of the vets abilities.


I hope all that makes sens its late here and i might have mistyped some things. Thanks for the help thus far.
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Crusader Twm



Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never actually played with crewed weapons, and don't have my SOA book handy, so I'll have to let someone else tackle those questions.

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
Targeting

1) If there are multiple squads can you pick what squad to shoot at and hit the closest member of that squad, or is it closest model period.

Closest model period, unless you can ignore targeting restrictions.

As far as I know the only significance of who's in what squad is that Yawdryls only confer their command bonus to memebers of their own squad.

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
Squad

1) Can your troops pick up better weapons off the dead. Ie if you drop that nice Ryshi, can a fellow squad mate pick it up and use it?

Rules as written? I don't think so, since AFAIK it's never mentioned. However, I think this sort of thing is a fun flavor rule and might make the fight more interesting. For example, if you take out an enemy with a good weapon, you may then want to put someone else on Overwatch to shoot at anyone that tries to grab it.

Maybe restrict it to veteran troops, since regulars won't have the wherewithal to think of that in the heat of battle? Or make a rhyfler pass a Q check to extricate the weapon from a fallen model?

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
So a few things.

1) The command range for Vet leaders is double to other vets???

"Command range" refers to the distance for which a leader (Yawdryl, is-Caerten/Caerten, and Syrnol) confers his Q bonus to his troops, so other vets don't have a command range. What that quoted text is saying is that when a Veteran leader issues a group order, any member of that group order within double the leader's command range can use their veteran ability.

Group orders are a bit funky, all models must be within a short distance of another member of the group order, but only one model has to be within the issuing officer's command range, so you could have a group order called in a setup like this:

Y--R1-R2-R3-R4-R5

"Y" is the yawdryl
"R's" are the rhyflers
"--" is medium
"-" is short.

Only Rhyfler 1 is within the yawdryl's command range, but since rhyflers 2-5 are within a short of one another they're still part of the group order. In this case, they could only use their veteran ability if they were also within 2 mediums (double the yawdryl's command range) of the yawdryl.

Kind of convoluted, and not super important because usually your group order is within 2 mediums anyways. At least I rarely find myself with my rhyflers spread out in a chain and within a short of one another.

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
2) You can only use the Vet abilities as part of a group order?

Correct.

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
3) a Vet must get orders from a VET LEADER to be able to use the abilities.

Correct.

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
4) Do the Regroup and Concentrated fire orders count as group orders for the purpose of the vets abilities.

I'm not sure - PaintMonkey?

Hope that helps!
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magog001



Joined: 18 Nov 2011
Posts: 180
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

useing the ganesha games wpn and unit biulders i have ascertained the following new profiles which i hope will be of use to people

partizan unarmed with G4 and C2 with no skills is 15 pts
Militia unarmed with G4 and C2 and the skill "Green" is 9pts

a moog is 19pts
a captured harlech is 17pts

cant do a veteran militia becuase the "fade" skill isnt on the list but with G3 and C2 without the fade skill its 20pts

cant do a bogen becuase there is no skill slot for semi-auto but without the costs for semi auto a bogen works out at 8pts which i suspect is not enough

just for the people who like to convert your partizans with bought (moog) or captured harlech/bogen weopons

also on a related note can i have a offical ruleing on profiles/qualities for the following wpns/tools

pitchfork
non pionted long tools like rakes and pruners
billhook
cleaver
dbl handed felling axe
handaxe
marlinspike/boathook
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Crusader Twm



Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they should all be pretty well covered by the weapon table in the book, I'm sure an ax is on there since the Crusader officers carry it (can't recall at the moment where it falls in the weapon hierarchy though...). The others (pitchfork, rake, boathook, etc.) would just be improvised weapons, I think.

If you really wanted to distinguish the big two-handed ax, you could use the same rules as the giant wrench that Orkdung posted with the heavy tanker in his New Quar Types thread.
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"I suppose I have mixed feelings about seeing cute edentates engaged in trench warfare."
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magog001



Joined: 18 Nov 2011
Posts: 180
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the big wrench does the axe ok good but i think there is a argument for a long improvised weopon catogory of some sort (picthfork or boathook) becuase of the very obvius reach and for things such as boarding pikes which were still used to fend of naval boarding actions even uptill the boer war
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headzombie
Site Admin


Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: The Smithy

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I or someone else can answer the other questions later, on my way out the door, but: I think we decided Fade cost either 3 or 5 and Semi-auto was renamed by ganesha. I think it might be called Move and Shoot now.
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DrinkDuffLight



Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought of my other rules question.

On the roll of a one to hit someone does the opponent still have to roll off against your result of 1. Or is it an auto miss. It does not clearly state this in the rules it just said after you roll a one roll again and hope to god its not a one again. The reason this matters is because snipers can get upwards of +7 to hit so a one is still able to kill a model pretty easily.
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paint monkey



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1603
Location: Oaktown

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A roll of a one is not an automatic miss. You still need to check it against the target's roll. Then after the combat resolution, make the reload check.
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paint monkey



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1603
Location: Oaktown

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrinkDuffLight wrote:
Weapon crew questions.
1) can weapon crew fire there own weapons. Or can they only be used to set up breakdown a weapon, or be used to stop a jam/out of ammo.

It just says you roll the team all at once and there actions form a pool for the unit, but you have to pick one model to the gunner. This leads me to think that even though you pool up there results you still have to us individual actions for each model outside of setting up/taking down the gun. (moving, firing, etc) So if you want to take an aimed shot you would need to roll at least two successes? And if you wanted to move each model once in that same turn you would need a total of 3.
IE you cant use 3 troops (1 gunner and 2 crew) roll one success and make an aimed shot with the action pool.


It is treated like a regular group order. The crew activates off of one roll, all of them getting an activation per successful roll. The difference with a crew is that their orders can be pooled to break down and move the gun, but they don't need to be. An individual Rhyfler in a crew can use his own weapon if you choose.

To take an aimed shot, the gunner must have two successes available. Another crew member cannot help with this. Another crew member can burn an activation to clear a jam/reload, but must be in base contact with the gun.

Quote:
2) If a model dies is it assumed that one of your other crew members picks up the LMG, HMG, or HSG?


To me, SOA is a game of individuals. That puts my take on the question into a grey area. I feel that having another rhyfler pick up the gunner position is both cinematic and fun, as well as being a little too game-y for my tastes. But not allowing it lets your opponent snipe gunners which is bad. But that forces you to deploy correctly, which is good. I can go back an forth all day like this.

So, your call. I can see arguments for both. Just make sure you and your opponent agree before the first die roll.

Quote:
4) Do the Regroup and Concentrated fire orders count as group orders for the purpose of the vets abilities.


Not really sure what you are getting at here. Do you want to combine them with the vet abilities? I don't think that was our intent. The Vet abilities were something we added. And to be honest, we probably didn't play with them enough. The Partisan one in particular is easy to get off and a pain in the ass to face.

Add the ability to fade after a concentrated fire, or do one on the move, might be too much.

Play it both ways a couple of times, and let me know what you think.
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