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A Rhyfler's Pocket-Book Feedback/Qestions Thread
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paint monkey



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1603
Location: Oaktown

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenton wrote:
7). Group Movement- pg.16, the model with leader can use both of his actions to have himself and a number other friendly models to "make a normal move or sprint move".

Is there a command radius or something, a max number of models that can take part, orr can it be any friendly models on the table and any amount?


Yes, it is part of the rhyfler's Leader skill, pg 19.

Quote:
Is the advantage to this skill that if you flipped a 3 card, you can activate the Leader model, and then he burns both actions to move himself and a couple other models, and after that, even though you can not use the models from the group movement, as they are considered "activated", but you still have the 2 activations left to activate 2 models not part of the move?

(If the models that took part in the group move actually counted towards the 3 you flipped, I would see no advantage to the Group move since you could just spend the point to activate them, and get a move and a shoot out of them)


You should reread that part.

The rhyflers activated by the group move count as only having used one activation, including the Leader, even though the movement costs two activations. So the group moved rhyflers can still be given a second activation.

So, big advantage.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paint monkey wrote:
Fenton wrote:
5). Pluck- pg. 8, is there a restriction of how much pluck a model can use each activation? Can you spend 1 to move the extra inch and then spend one to increase his Skill on the same model and activation? How about using 2 to move 2" extra?


Okay, this one I care about.

First, you can do what ever you want as long as your opponent agrees. That is the whole point of Pluck. You want to move 2 or more inches? Ask the guy across the table from you, not the idiot that decided writing rules would be fun. Cool If he agrees, go for it! If not, haggle or don't let him do something later in the game.

Second, I know this isn't the focus of the question, but I have since changed my intent on how you apply Pluck to missed skill checks and Might & Firepower rolls.

The intent is that if you fail any check in a game by 1 you can spend Pluck to make it a success, because missing by one sucks. This also prevents trying to Pluck a success from a failure greater than one.

I know it isn't that different, technically, but the above wording matches my intent better, and is how I like to think of the use of Pluck as a resource.


That does seem a better way forward, in that you cannot just dump 5 Pluck into a horrible miss to make it a success, and makes it a more reasonable resource since it's not a " miracle maker", and more of small twist of fate (holding one's breath a fraction of a second more or a chance stillness of the wind as the trigger is pulled) that is just enough.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paint monkey wrote:
Fenton wrote:
7). Group Movement- pg.16, the model with leader can use both of his actions to have himself and a number other friendly models to "make a normal move or sprint move".

Is there a command radius or something, a max number of models that can take part, orr can it be any friendly models on the table and any amount?


Yes, it is part of the rhyfler's Leader skill, pg 19.

Quote:
Is the advantage to this skill that if you flipped a 3 card, you can activate the Leader model, and then he burns both actions to move himself and a couple other models, and after that, even though you can not use the models from the group movement, as they are considered "activated", but you still have the 2 activations left to activate 2 models not part of the move?

(If the models that took part in the group move actually counted towards the 3 you flipped, I would see no advantage to the Group move since you could just spend the point to activate them, and get a move and a shoot out of them)


You should reread that part.

The rhyflers activated by the group move count as only having used one activation, including the Leader, even though the movement costs two activations. So the group moved rhyflers can still be given a second activation.

So, big advantage.



Ah, I see it. That's what I get for not reading all the way through before asking questions, did not go through the abilities thoroughly.☺️
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harlech v. Bogen

I realize balance can come from looking at a force as a whole, and not by each piece, but the Bogen just seems better on paper.

It could be illusory, but the Rhyfler's are the same cost with the same stats, until you get to the weapons, and the Bogen has a range ring of 6 and the Harlech a range of 8".

For giving up the 2" of comparative range, however, the Bogen gets the Assault ability which has it only get -2 to live and shoot, which seems really good.

The "fluff" on the Harlech says it "outdistances the Crusader's Bogen by almost twice", which the 2" extra does not seem to quite jive. I've of course at this point not played a game with these rules, so I admit ignorance as to how much the extra 2" range actually affects things. Is the range not almost doubled as the fluff would indicate because it would make the Harlech too good?

Again, not complaining, just wondering 😊.


I see that the Harlech is better used in close attack action having a higher Might, is this the balancer?
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andyskinner



Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess the range band difference builds up, but not by twice.
0/-1/-2/-3/-4
6/12/18/24/30
8/16/24/32/40

So by 4/3. Smile

I thought the Ryshi was also semi-automatic. Is that wrong, out of date, or just not relevant to whether it should have Assault? I"m not trying to make the Ryshi more powerful, but wondering about removing semi-automatic from my Chain of Command stats.

andy
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyskinner wrote:
I'd guess the range band difference builds up, but not by twice.
0/-1/-2/-3/-4
6/12/18/24/30
8/16/24/32/40

So by 4/3. Smile

I thought the Ryshi was also semi-automatic. Is that wrong, out of date, or just not relevant to whether it should have Assault? I"m not trying to make the Ryshi more powerful, but wondering about removing semi-automatic from my Chain of Command stats.

andy


I'm pretty sure Ryshi is still a semi auto in the fluff, as it as in SoA. Probably statted without the characteristic for balance.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
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Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8 ) . Select Fire (X)- pg. 24, when it says "shots may be spread amongst multiple targets within 2" of eachother". Does that indicate spreading the Select Fire shots amongst multiple targets is a choice, and that you could just keep attempting he shots on the same target?

I realize that this could be a non-choice in many instances, even if legal, as if the target model that is targeted is hit is in cover, they will drop into a Prone position of no LOS, per pg. 6, making additional shots impossible, but if the original target is not in cover, and there are no other models within 2", can we attempt to plink away at the same target who is now Prone in Light Cover, or keep shooting at a target we missed with the Select Fire follow up shots?

Additionally, the "penalty equal to the total of shots taken" is cumulative in the shots declared, or the penalty only comes to bare with each shot taken? So if you have Select Fire (3), and you will shoot three times, is the first shot -0, the second shot -1, and the third at -2, with the -1 for each shot that had been fired, or are they all at -3 since the whole burst is penalized based on how many shots "will be taken"?

I can see it fluff-wise going the first way, in that the first shot may be accurate, but the recoil will push aim further off with each shot, but perhaps balance-wise it's deemed too powerful if all shots are not at the negative modifier.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

9). Fidwog Calvary LMG- pg.33, the unit uses a Bensa F6, which had the Loader ability, which gives a +1 Skill Check if in base contact with an additional Rhyfler. The unit is somewhat unique in that it has two Rhyflers on the mount, so is this sufficient to satisfy Loader, or does a third Rhyfler based separately to be in base contact with the Calvary model for Loader to apply?
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10). Recovery Action and "Grit"- pg.16, on a roll of 16 or 17, the opposing commander gains "a point of grit"? Is this a typo and it just means Pluck?
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

11). Board Size for Skirmishes, - while I may just be missing it, despite my hunt, but what is he recommended board size for a skirmish? Is it dependent on how many points you are playing? It seems like 3x3 or 4x4 would be the standard, but perhaps it's just by agreement of the players?. The Deployment zone is often listed as the 8" from the edge, but I cannot find any measurement of the board itself.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
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Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12). Obstacles and Barricades - pg. 14 indicates that when performing a melee attack there is a -2 modifier if the "Target is behind a barricade". I do not see barricade defined in the terrain section on pg. 9, or what it would entail exactly, but to be engaged you have to be in base to base contact, so wouldn't anything in between the models prevent a Melee attack? Does the penalty just contemplate that's they were behind a "barricade" when you charged them or you had to climb it prior to the melee, so you at a disadvantage?

Are the "obstacles" listed on the Defend! scenario on pg.44 the same thing as "barricades", or something different?

If they are different, or are just generically terrain elements, are there categories that are recommended? I would think 18" of impassible walls would be too much, depending on the intended width of the board. Perhaps the players should just discuss and agree on what looks fair?


Thanks, and sorry for all the questions Smile
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paint monkey



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: Oaktown

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenton wrote:
8 ) . Select Fire (X)- pg. 24, when it says "shots may be spread amongst multiple targets within 2" of eachother". Does that indicate spreading the Select Fire shots amongst multiple targets is a choice, and that you could just keep attempting he shots on the same target?


Yes you can put them all into one target, but that must be declared before rolling.

Quote:
I realize that this could be a non-choice in many instances, even if legal, as if the target model that is targeted is hit is in cover, they will drop into a Prone position of no LOS, per pg. 6, making additional shots impossible, but if the original target is not in cover, and there are no other models within 2", can we attempt to plink away at the same target who is now Prone in Light Cover, or keep shooting at a target we missed with the Select Fire follow up shots?


The intent is that all shots are declared, then rolled. I hate "rolling fire" in games where you can pick targets after removing the previous. In the above you can keep firing at the target as long as that is what was declared, and you have LoS.

Quote:
Additionally, the "penalty equal to the total of shots taken" is cumulative in the shots declared, or the penalty only comes to bare with each shot taken? So if you have Select Fire (3), and you will shoot three times, is the first shot -0, the second shot -1, and the third at -2, with the -1 for each shot that had been fired, or are they all at -3 since the whole burst is penalized based on how many shots "will be taken"?


All shots are at the full modifier. Three targets declared, -3 for all three.
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paint monkey



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenton wrote:
9). Fidwog Calvary LMG- pg.33, the unit uses a Bensa F6, which had the Loader ability, which gives a +1 Skill Check if in base contact with an additional Rhyfler. The unit is somewhat unique in that it has two Rhyflers on the mount, so is this sufficient to satisfy Loader, or does a third Rhyfler based separately to be in base contact with the Calvary model for Loader to apply?


The other rider counts.

Fenton wrote:
10). Recovery Action and "Grit"- pg.16, on a roll of 16 or 17, the opposing commander gains "a point of grit"? Is this a typo and it just means Pluck?


Typo. I missed a couple of old terms on my find and replace. Grit is Pluck.

All our skirmish games have a resource like Pluck. In Shieldbash it is Froth, in Netherworld's Edge it is Mischief, and in Storm of Steel it is Grit.

Fenton wrote:
11). Board Size for Skirmishes, - while I may just be missing it, despite my hunt, but what is he recommended board size for a skirmish? Is it dependent on how many points you are playing? It seems like 3x3 or 4x4 would be the standard, but perhaps it's just by agreement of the players?. The Deployment zone is often listed as the 8" from the edge, but I cannot find any measurement of the board itself.


Whoops. We usually play on 2'x2' or 2'x4', but whatever you have will work. Just adjust the deployment zones to fit. You have to stop thinking of our rules as anything more than suggestions. You are playing the game, do what makes it fun for you. What do I know about what you enjoy. Razz

Fenton wrote:
12). Obstacles and Barricades - pg. 14 indicates that when performing a melee attack there is a -2 modifier if the "Target is behind a barricade". I do not see barricade defined in the terrain section on pg. 9, or what it would entail exactly, but to be engaged you have to be in base to base contact, so wouldn't anything in between the models prevent a Melee attack? Does the penalty just contemplate that's they were behind a "barricade" when you charged them or you had to climb it prior to the melee, so you at a disadvantage?

Are the "obstacles" listed on the Defend! scenario on pg.44 the same thing as "barricades", or something different?

If they are different, or are just generically terrain elements, are there categories that are recommended? I would think 18" of impassible walls would be too much, depending on the intended width of the board.


These are left over from a fuller rules set that is the base system for our skirmish games. A barricade is something like a wall or some sandbags that gives the defender some cover. If both models are in base contact with the barricade and within an inch or so of each other they can perform melee actions, with the appropriate penalties.

Obstacle and barricades are pretty interchangeable. I have no idea what your terrain collection looks like so you will get no judgements or definitions from me. Very Happy

Quote:
Perhaps the players should just discuss and agree on what looks fair?


Now you have the right idea! Cool Razz
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clearing up all those points for me.

I realize you guys make games to provide fun, not for a tournament play, and the goal is a good time rather than for a victory (as it should be), but the clarity really does help.

We might house rule things, especially if we don't understand something, or even if we just think it would be more fun to do it a different way, but at the same time, you guys are the ones that have beta'd the rules (at least 3-4 times in various incarnations), so it's nice to be able to build upon what you guys may have already found as broken or "fun-inhibiting", thus it's easier to zero in with starting with the rules as you tested and intended.

I've not played an actual game of this yet, but the elements of SOA (like the constant popping up and down of the troops, and the crapping out on the first action) that we were not the biggest fans of are gone, and I like the resource management mechanic of "pluck", not only that it gives you more meaningful decisions to make in what to spend it on, but that it does not come with "analysis paralysis" of whether you should spend it or not, since there are ways to generate additional "pluck" in-game, that gives you a press-your-luck option of spending pluck on the gamble to gain more pluck with that action.
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Fenton



Joined: 29 May 2014
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Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

13). Wound Counters - There are wound counters that have a Wound Severity of 7, but also has a Profile Modifier of "Incap", which presumably is incapacitated

Since the Profile Modifier would, I assume, incapacitate the model upon flipping the counter, does the "7" actually have any significance or function?

That is to say, normally the number would go towards the Wound Severity total to compare to a model's Toughness "track", however with the Profile Modifier being "Incap", the total is irrelevant, and the Wound Severity total or make no difference, whether it's 7 or 17, correct ?
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